Writer Wednesday: Zig Zag Claybourne

Today, Writer Wednesday welcomes the great Zig Zag Claybourne. I had the pleasure of meeting Zig in person a few years ago at ReaderCon, where we both participated in a play test of C.S.E. Cooney and Carlos Hernandez’s wonderful card-based RPG Game Negocios Infernales.

photo by Al Bogdan

Named one of the “6 Best Black Indie Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers You Should Be Reading” by Book Riot (2021), Zig Zag Claybourne is the author of the upcoming fantasy Khumalo Tales and its prequels Breath, Warmth, and Dream and Amnandi Sails. Other novels include The Brothers Jetstream: Leviathan, Afro Puffs Are the Antennae of the Universe, and By All Our Violent Guides. His stories and essays have appeared in The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, Apex, Realm (formerly Serial Box), Galaxy’s Edge, Strange Horizons, GigaNotosaurus, and numerous anthologies. Claybourne is a frequent speaker at libraries, conventions, and learning institutions. zzclaybourne.com

 

Hi Zig Zag! Thanks for taking part in today’s Writer Wednesday chat.

Thank you for making space on the interview sofa for me!

You’ve recently launched a Kickstarter for the final book in your Mother Khumalo trilogy, Khumalo Tales. Tell us about the characters and trajectory of the trilogy.

I wanted to write a grand adventure focusing on the people having the adventures, not so much the adventures themselves. I’ve done a book a year on these characters, a first for me, as well as my first strictly fantasy outing. What started as a short story in 2020 (published at GigaNotosaurus by LaShawn Wanak) evolved into a separate novel in 2024 that I immediately knew was going to be a trilogy. Ayanda Khumalo and her daughter Amnandi are the primary characters throughout. Ayanda is better known to her world of Erah as Unina (Mother) Khumalo, not that she actually seeks to be known. Amnandi Khumalo, in book one, is a sometimes lonely ten-year-old but incredibly aware of herself and what she can do. As a family, their thrust is travel. Who doesn’t want to give their child access to the entire world? And Mother Khumalo does, heading overseas on a whim. As witches, though (my version of witches), certain rules are a given, prime being never allow harm to come to innocents. There’s never a shortage of harm to be found. BREATH WARMTH & DREAM sees them squared off against a thief mage and his cohort of a wraith and a demon.

By AMNANDI SAILS, book two, mother is off on her own adventure while 17-year-old Amnandi sails with a beloved family friend, Captain Maab Pinyasama, on Maab’s fabulous ship. We know what Amnandi is capable of from book one. The question she has for herself is not simply can she push herself, but which directions she should do so, a question shared by everybody in the book regarding themselves. The book concerns itself with power. Coming into one’s own power—and how that affects others—should never have a single definition.

By trilogy’s end, Amnandi’s in her forties, her mother her seventies. We know the witches have grown into legends despite their best efforts to ignore that status. KHUMALO TALES hints at adventures we haven’t seen, and presents the grand duo with one they’re not entirely sure how to face, despite their advanced years.

What was the initial inspiration for this world and characters? How have the world or characters changed from your initial conception to the finished books?

Inspiration came 100% from an offhand remark a good friend made. We were messaging each other and she said she’d baked so much “the air in my house tastes like sugar.” Instant amazing title. Instant story. I wanted to do a riff of Hansel & Gretel. I wanted a storyworld that had the feel of a fairy tale told in an uncertain woods, a story full of magick (on Erah it gets the added ‘k’) but not about the magick. Mob-thought and ignorance are staples of ancient tales, so the story would revolve around that. How would a magickal Black woman and her daughter have molded the typical olde English fantasy world to comport itself in their presence? Particularly when they had no interest in proving themselves to anyone; it was more “prove yourselves to me, otherwise I have better concerns.”

That’s a thread that stayed with them throughout the series. They know their power. Nothing comes between them. Nothing occurs between them but love. By the time we get to KHUMALO TALES, the world of Erah is solidified in the reader’s mind. They know its tastes, its waters, there’s even a map in book 2 (is it even fantasy if there’s not a map?). Readers know that Amnandi in any given situation is going to be a person a reader wants in that situation. They know Mother Khumalo has addressed the situation before the situation ever has a chance to come up and is waiting for the inevitable to catch up to her. But they also know that these are two magickal beings among a world of magickal beings (and non-magickal ones) who love being thrown a curve! And by the time Mother Khumalo has hit seventy, Erah is a lot more peaceful in more ways than one.

covers by Anansi+Hayes 

Was this always intended as a trilogy? And, if you can answer without spoiling the events of Khumalo Tales, is it possible we’ll see more with these characters or this world in the future?

Maybe some part of me decided I was going to sink a buzzer shot from the 3-point line, but as sure as Tolkien sent Bilbo traveling, I knew that this would be a trilogy covering their entire lives as concisely as possible. And I like to think all my books, no matter the genre, are interconnected. It might not be likely we’ll see these characters in the future; ain’t exactly unlikely either.

You write across a number of genres under various pen names. Is there a genre (or sub-genre) you haven’t tried yet that you’d like to?

I’ve dabbled with horror shorts. I’d like to do a horror novel. Except I’m a horror weenie. Especially paranormal stuff. Splatter and gore? Barely registers. Jump scares are easy and don’t stick. But the stuff that gets inside the mind? The feeling of your reflection watching you walk from the bathroom after you turn out the light? Or you hearing a chair pull out when you know you live alone? Nerp. As much as I want to write a horror novel, I’d need several months in a beachside yurt to recover.

What is your writing process like? And does it change based on genre or story length?

I write from a place of feeling. If I can’t feel the soul of a story, my pen doesn’t move. I write everything longhand, then type it up, then print it, then revise with red pen, sticky notes, or taped bits of paper. This means I might take forever to get a story out. Sometimes I tell that to new writers and they panic. They think of ideas as Pokémon; gotta catch em all. Since I think of ideas as tribbles, I can take my time making sure the one I’m working with is what it wants to be, because if I lose one, no big deal. I’ve gotten to the point where I know that no idea I ever have is so precious as to get in the way of me having another. This allows for freedom of expression in prose and exploration of form, which leads to your question of does my process change based on genre or length. It does not. I’m not a perfectionist or absolute completist, which is why if I do take on a project, I have to love it. Pen, paper, soul. If anything, I’m a literary tuning fork. A line, page, or book is only finished when it vibes right.

I’ve heard the term “Afrofuturism” used to describe your work, as well as current writers such as Maurice Broaddus, Rob Cameron, Nnedi Okorafor, Nisi Shawl, and SF grand masters like Octavia E. Butler and Samuel R. Delany. I only recently learned that the term dates to the early 1990s. I’d like to ask what your thoughts are regarding the history of the label, its applicability to your work across genres, and use as a marketing tool. I know it has helped me find authors I haven’t read before.

Short history: the publishing industry found a new means to sequester Black writers under a new label, same as the music industry had to invent “race music” then “roots music”, “R&B”, “world music” and on and on. Whiteness always says “What we do is the thing, what you do is something akin.” Never matters if we invented the thing or not. Black writers have been doing futurism since the Dogon described Sirius B.

Longer, more rooted, contemporary history: there are so many definitions for Afrofuturism; there are so many offshoots, so many refutations, so many dismissals, and conscious mutations. For me, an afrofuturist is a time traveler delivering ways to improve human affairs. It’s not solely “Black people are in the future.” It’s a creative mindset of actively healing the future. We take the past, present, and future as one body. We imagine fictions that tend to that body. I do speculative fiction. I don’t mind if anyone labels what I do as afrofuturist, as long as they’re using that term to embody exploration, not sequestration. Afrofuturism is not interested in the status quo. Stagnancy is infection. Even in my fantasy novels, there’s inherent pushback against the notion that fantasy is the province of white people, with everyone else in the world just tourists in it. I recently watched a documentary about the fantasy genre’s huge dominance in pop culture. Lord of Narnia’s Potter Rings basically. You can guess how white it was except for a 2-second flash of NK Jemisin’s name toward the end of the entire hour. If a documentary wants to do that, then call it Eurofantasy, not Fantasy with a hard F. I’m sure any documentary on the Khumalo Trilogy would call it Afrofantasy so fast my pen would spin. Marketing-wise, terms can help readers who are curious break out of their defaults, but the industry generally keeps a Black writer’s discoverability small within the traditional channels. I’m primarily indie. People that want to go somewhere cool already know where to find me. Zig Zag Claybourne is a speakeasy.

Who are your biggest influences?

Toni Morrison and Dr. Seuss. Seuss enabled me to have fun with words, Morrison sharpened their inner workings. You can imagine “combines the best of Toni Morrison and Dr. Seuss” is not the most comp-ready buzz among the traditional publishing industry. Works for me tho.

What’s next for you, after the Khumalo Tales Kickstarter ends and you put the finishing touches on the project?

Gonna get intimate with the TBR pile. Gonna drink so many leaf squeezins (tea, for the heathens out there). I’m not the fastest writer in the world but I’ve literally done five books since Covid covered the world. Afro Puffs Are the Antennae of the World, Conversations with Idras, Breath Warmth & Dream, Amnandi Sails, and now Khumalo Tales. And it’s not a matter of cranking. I don’t crank. A scifi, a satire, and a fantasy. Sometimes the words flow. I jump in my innertube whenever that happens. Once KHUMALO TALES is in the hands of backers I’m going to give my brain time to get its elasticity under control. Right now it’s Mr. Fantastic after three rounds with the Hulk.

And my usual final question: What is your favorite book, and why?

My favorite book of all time is McElligot’s Pool [by Dr. Suess], because it was the first book to teach me how to expand the universe from any small unlikely place, crucial knowledge which is not only valuable but fun.

covers by Anansi+Hayes 

INTERVIEW: BETH CATO

Today, I’m chatting with author Beth Cato. Beth Cato hails from Hanford, California, but currently writes and bakes cookies in Red Wing, Minnesota. She usually has one or two cats in close orbit. A 2015 Nebula finalist, she is the author of the cozy mystery CHEDDAR LUCK NEXT TIME as well as fantasy like A THOUSAND RECIPES FOR REVENGE. Her short stories can be found in publications ranging from Beneath Ceaseless Skies to Uncanny Magazine. In 2019 and 2022, she won the Rhysling Award for short speculative poetry. Her website BethCato.com includes not only a vast bibliography, but a treasure trove of recipes for delectable goodies. Find her on BlueSky as @BethCato and Instagram as @catocatsandcheese.

Photo Credit: Corey Ralston Photography (2013)

ANTHONY: Hi Beth! Thanks for taking some time to chat. Your latest release, which was an Amazon First Reads pick for September, is A House Between Sea and Sky. Tell us a bit about the plot.

BETH: It’s a cozy standalone set in 1926 Carmel-by-the-Sea in California. A grieving writer and a secretive silent film star are adopted by a sentient cottage with a dark past.

What inspired you to write A House Between Sea and Sky?

After I wrapped up my Chefs of the Five Gods series, I asked my then-editor what she’d like to see next. She said she wanted historical fantasy set in the real world. From there, I started mulling. I’m a native Californian, so exploring that setting feels right.

House is historical fantasy, much like your Blood of Earth trilogy. How much research did you have to do into the time period this book takes place in, and how did you go about that? (I loved all the details you incorporated about the Silent Film industry of the time, even the unsavory aspects of it.)

I spent a solid three months on research before I could even finish a synopsis, and then I kept researching through the writing and revision process. For me, worldbuilding really needs to come before fleshed-our characters or plot. Our world shapes everything. I was truly blessed to find a wealth of scanned Carmel 1920s newspapers on Archive.org, plus a tourism book that was published in 1925. There is a very special famous person cameo appearance in the book, and that person’s involvement determined the exact days of the plot. As for the silent film elements... I actually have a trunked novel I wrote a few years ago that I think is one of the best things I’ve ever written, but my agent wasn’t able to sell it. My main character in that book was a scenarist in 1923 Hollywood. I had kept the most interesting research books and had tons of information on my computer, so I was able to repurpose that material, which felt wonderful!

I would love to see that trunked novel be published some day! Without spoiling anything, I think it’s safe to say that Russian folklore plays a large role in the book. Was this folklore that you grew up with?

In my teens, I collected a number of century-old Andrew Lang Color Fairy Tale books and other mythology tomes that were discarded from my local library. (There’s a reason those Lang books get a mention in A House Between Sea and Sky!) I still have them all, too. That’s really the first place I encountered a broader variety of stories that were identified with their places of origin, and I was then able to connect creatures and elements to the AD&D books I was also reading at the time.

While I don’t think it’s ever explicitly stated in the text, I got the very strong feeling that Fayette is asexual/aromantic (although those terms probably didn’t exist in the 1920s), and thus her relationship with Rex is one of mutual respect and quickly-developing friendship, but nothing more. I think we still don’t see enough of this in historical fantasy (the lack of a romance between leads). I’m not sure I have a question here, other than “is my understanding of the character correct?” But would you like to talk a bit about how you approach representation in your books (which always have diverse casts)?

You’re 100% right. I wrote Fayette to be ace. I love a good main character romance, but I don’t think that should be a requirement even if it appeals to the big trend. People CAN just be friends. I want my books to be realistic, and for me, that means diversity is natural. That includes a spectrum of queer rep as well as different skin tones and ethnic backgrounds. By the way, the racism shown in this book was directly inspired by reading Jack London’s book The Valley of the Moon, which is partly set in Carmel, and is also horrendously racist with very particular ideas on who is a “real American.” So I guess my approach to representation is sometimes inspired by active defiance against a book that is over 100 years old!

I would love to know what your writing process is like, and if it varies when you delve into different genres (you know how much I loved your foray into cozy mystery/thriller territory, Cheddar Luck Next Time) or different story lengths (novels vs. novellas vs. short stories for instance).

I’m a hardcore outliner and researcher. Even for a flash fic, which is normally about a thousand words, it’s not uncommon for me to have a few sentences of outline to guide me! Poetry is the only thing I write spontaneously. So many of my recent fantasy books have been historical, and the research has been immersive. A Feast for Starving Stone had a 25,000-word outline, but that was also long because my characters were talking a lot in my head, and that dialogue was sketched in. Cheddar Luck Next Time was nowhere near as intense, but I still had to research details on running a cheese board business. The details on the many cheeses included were largely drawn from my own personal cheese log, which is over 200,000 words and is nearing 2,000 cheeses. Bird’s taste note on cheese are pulled from my own experiences.

 

Speaking of Cheddar Luck Next Time (which I reviewed HERE … is there any word on whether we’ll get to see more adventures of Bird and company?

I hate to be a tease, but I hope to be able to talk more about that soon!

I’ll take whatever teases I can get! What do you have in the pipeline/coming out next?

I do have one contract signed that I can’t talk about yet, and I’m in a very early research stage for something else. I’ve been very busy recently!

And my traditional final question … what is your all-time favorite book?

There is one recent stand-out for me, and that is The Wishing Game by Meg Shaffer. It’s really a suspenseful love letter to the power of children’s fantasy novels and how they can save lives. I recently read it again because I proposed it to a local book club, and the other members loved it so much that they all immediately picked up her second book, The Lost Story, which is also excellent. It’s a queer take on Narnia-style portal fantasies. Really, you can’t go wrong with Meg Shaffer’s books! Her third one will be out next year, and I can’t wait.

I am adding Meg Shaffer to my To Be Read list as soon as I finish posting this interview. Thanks again Beth!

Sunday Shorts: Two From Women in Practical Armor

In 2016, Ed Greenwood and Gabrielle Harbowy edited Women in Practical Armor, an anthology of fantasy short stories focused on female warriors while avoiding the trope of skimpy armor. Here are my thoughts on a couple of the stories contained therein.

cover image by Nneirda, design by Eloise Knapp

 

“No Better Armor, No Heavier Burden” by Wunji Lau

Rose, an older woman with a mysterious past, has settled quietly in a small town in the shadow of a mountain with strange properties called the Blacktooth, where weather does not work the way it does in the rest of Ara. Only one person in town knows anything of her past at all, including that she has two estranged adult sons. The story begins with Rose running towards the town Inn because she’s heard there’s trouble, and only upon arrival does she discover one of her sons, Zaian, being held at swordpoint by Leian (a nearby country) soldiers. From there, the story gains complexity as an excellently written fight scene reveals what Rose and her opponents are capable of along with some of Rose’s secrets (and her son’s). But it’s not all non-stop fighting; the conflict between Rose and the people who want to take Zaian in for a crime he possibly didn’t commit also becomes something of a battle of personality and will. I loved Rose’s personality (take charge, take no bullshit, take chances). Her first-person narrative voice is personable and irascible; her relationship with Zaian is not smooth but still loving as she struggles with why he’s been estranged and why he’s lying to her now. The world building surrounding the characters is really great: the Blacktooth is home to weird energy fluctuations that affect not just the weather but the way magic works. I really want to know more about Rose, Zaian, and the countries of Ara and Lei and the religion of the Steersman.

 

“The Bound Man” by Mary Robinette Kowal

In Li Reiko’s society, women are the warriors and leaders, while men are the homemakers and scribes. Li Reiko herself is a noted leader and warrior, with two young children: a daughter who will someday be a warrior as well, and a son whose interest in martial arts needs to be dissuaded because it distracts him from honing the skills he’ll need to keep the Histories. Despite her society’s dictates, Li Reiko plays a version of hide-and-seek with her kids that fosters both children’s abilities and awareness. Elsewhere, Halldór, a warrior-priest, struggles to bring the sword of the Chooser of the Slain back to his people’s Parliament while his Duke and the rest of the party that found the legendary sword fall to a bandit raiding party. Halldór chants a rune of power that will bring the Chooser of the Slain from the realm of the gods to the world of men … and Li Reiko is torn from her children and thrust into a world she doesn’t recognize. “The Bound Man” explores the ideological conflict of matriarchal versus patriarchal societies alongside the notion of destiny. Li Reiko is stuck living out a legend/prophecy she had no hand in creating, and the story explores the effects of that on her children and on Halldór’s society. There are moments of this story that are so heartbreaking, and Kowal doesn’t give her characters an uncomplicated way out (no rewriting history, for example). The heart of the story is Li Reiko’s relationship with her kids (the hide-and-seek scene is genuinely heartwarming) and Halldór’s unerring belief in the legend of the Chooser of the Slain and her ability to rescue his country from the Troll King.

 

I love short fiction in all its forms: from novellas to novelettes, short stories, flash fiction, and drabbles. Sunday Shorts is the feature where I get to blog about it.

Sunday Shorts: Two from Knaves

In Knaves: A Blackguards Anthology (Outland Entertainment, 2018), Editors Melanie R. Meadors and Alana Joli Abbott brought together 14 stories about anti-heroes, heroes discovering the darker sides of themselves, and villains discovering their nobler aspects. Here are my thoughts on two of the stories contained in an anthology that covers a variety of genres.

cover art by Daniel Rempel

 

“Daughter of Sorrow” by Maurice Broaddus

“Our kind is never alone.” I really wasn’t sure, thanks to that opening sentence, what genre of story I was in for. “Our kind” meaning … vampires? Clandestine super-humans? Aliens living among us? So many possibilities, and any of them would have been interesting in Broaddus’ hands. What we get is the tale of Rianna, a teenage girl whose family is part of a secret society that runs the world. Rianna’s father is missing and presumed dead, which leaves her adrift and in harm’s way thanks to the society’s rules. Broaddus reveals the danger she’s in through a series of encounters with classmates and doles out the details of her relationship with her father via flashbacks. The alternating scenes build the suspense of both storylines effectively up to the moment they come together. The story is complete unto itself but did leave me wanting more of both Rianna and the Grendel Society.

 

The Life and Times of Johnny the Fox by Sabrina Vourvoulias

“The Life and Times of Johnny the Fox” is a story about a classic trickster personality, about community, and about doing the right thing even when it’s not the easy thing.

One of the many things I love about this story is what I can only describe as the “street corner urban legend” style of the narration. Imagine walking through a Philadelphia neighborhood, stopping into a bodega for a bottle of water or soda while you’re in the middle of telling your companion a local legend you’ve heard, and having someone say, “I am here to tell you the truth about the Johnny the Fox.” That first sentence sets that tone, and the rest of the story delivers on it.

Every Sabrina Vourvoulias story has an undeniable rhythm, a musicality that drives it. “The Life and Times of Johnny the Fox” is no exception. There’s the beat of the narration, a very particular style of storytelling that sweeps you up and carries you along. But music, singing especially, also plays a part in the main action of the story as Johnny returns to Puerto Rico at a particularly dangerous time for the island, to try to do what he does best: convince someone not to do the terrible thing they’re about to do. But even the most charismatic people stumble sometimes, and how Johnny recovers from that with the help of a community that loves him (even if they don’t always like him) is just as important as whether he succeeds.

Sunday Shorts: Two by Sharang Biswas

Sharang Biswas is a game designer, writer, and artist based in New York City whose stories and poetry have appeared in Nightmare Magazine, Fantasy Magazine, Baffling Magazine, Sana Stories, Strange Horizons, and elsewhere. Look him up on his website. Today, I’m going to look at his two most recent stories that appeared in Lightspeed Magazine, edited by John Joseph Adams. Lightspeed Magazine contents are free to read on the website and e-book subscriptions are also available.

“Real Magic” (Lightspeed Magazine #153, February 2023)

Three townspeople visit the Witch in the Woods to ask for help with their problems. She extracts a different price from each, something either cherished or endemic to the person’s sense of self. Each visitor ultimately finds what they are searching for (or searching for relief from), but not in the way they or the reader expects. The witch uses their ingredients to do real magic. This is a beautifully told story, a fairy tale in style but cloaked in Biswas’ beautiful sense of character and community. Biswas uses the needs of the visitors (and their resolutions) to show that every individual action has an effect outside the moment in which that action is taken or that choice is made. Nothing happens in a vacuum, no one person’s fate is theirs alone. What one person discards (willingly or not) may be picked up by another (who may or may not benefit from it). I also loved how Biswas doesn’t spoon-fed the connections between the villagers’ stories but lets them come out organically and not all at once.

 

“Season of Weddings” (Lightspeed Magazine #166, March 2024, story goes live on the website March 28th)

Nate receives seven wedding invitations in one year. Okay, two of them are for his job, which is maybe a little less fun than attending as a guest. Especially because it quickly becomes apparent to the reader that Nate is Thanatos, god of death. Sometimes, people die at weddings. Still reeling from his most recent relationship break-up (with Thor, who has moved on to loving a mortal woman), Nate must navigate these weddings, new singlehood, his job, his perhaps too-pushy best friend, and a cute guy he keeps bumping into at the weddings. This story is so sweet, so romantic and wistful. I recognized some of myself in Nate’s self-esteem issues around romance and relationships, which made me connect to the work even more. The world-building is also wonderful, bringing together characters from all sorts of world mythologies and religions but tweaking them in new and interesting ways (for instance, the Thor is this story is neither the “drunken jock” we often see nor the blond-tressed super-hero). I won’t spoil who all shows up, because part of the fun of the story is the reveals of Nate’s friends’ circle. I’m a sucker for “deities and personifications of human concepts walk among us and act like every-day people” types of stories (think the classic issue number eight of Neil Gaiman’s the Sandman, illustrated by Mike Dringenberg, among others), and this one fits the description very well. It also fits very well as a paranormal romance, and I love it when authors blend and blur genres.

 

I love short fiction, and Sunday Shorts is the feature where I get to blog about it. I’ve considered promising to review a short story every day, but that’s a lot of pressure. And while no one will fault me if I miss days, I’ll feel guilty, which will lead to not posting at all. So better to stick to a weekly post highlighting a couple/three stories, as I’ve done in the past. Click on the Sunday Shorts tab at the bottom of this post to find earlier entries in the series!